Witness Statement
SPEAKER_00: So as I said, I'm detective O'Hara. SPEAKER_00: I'm here with detective Jake Schwecke. SPEAKER_00: And and would you state your name and spell it for us? SPEAKER_00: K. SPEAKER_00: And what is your position here with the university? SPEAKER_01: I'm an assistant professor in the department of SPEAKER_00: And we had in our notes that you had requested to talk to an investigator? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Well, before we get into how how long have you been working with the university? SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Not I think. SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure how many years that means. SPEAKER_00: Totally get it. SPEAKER_00: Awesome. SPEAKER_00: Have you been in this position the whole time? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: In that so in this position, how I guess I so I'm not I've never taken any criminal justice classes or any criminology seat. SPEAKER_00: Have I to bear with me on some of this stuff. SPEAKER_00: Yes. SPEAKER_00: How much face to face contact do you have with the students? SPEAKER_01: Now that we're back, like, we have especially grad students, like, we see them for three hours every weekend class. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: And then there's office hours that they can drop by and talk to us if they want. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: And what what classes are you a professor for? SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you what do you teach? SPEAKER_01: So I teach a lot of the boring stuff, so, like, methods and stats. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: But my area of specialty is sexual violence, and I do teach a sexual violence class at the undergraduate level, though. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: You said at the undergraduate level as well? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: In the grad program, mostly just methods and stats. SPEAKER_00: So was and I'm assuming you've followed the invest well, you know that we're our suspect is Brian Koberter. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Um, did you have a significant amount of contact with Yes. SPEAKER_00: Koberter with within the because far as I understand, he was only around for this one semester. SPEAKER_00: Is that correct? SPEAKER_00: Yes. SPEAKER_00: That's true. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Um, so when did you first have contact with him? SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would say the first week of class, which so my class was on Thursdays, and I guess the Monday was the twenty second, so maybe August 26 or something like that. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Um, and was that was that in a class setting, or was that, like, an orientation meeting? SPEAKER_00: Or SPEAKER_01: So there was a barbecue at the beginning that I didn't go to. SPEAKER_01: So SPEAKER_02: Okay. SPEAKER_01: But yeah. SPEAKER_01: So I saw him for the first time in the class. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: And and what class was that? SPEAKER_01: Research methods. SPEAKER_01: K. SPEAKER_00: Did was he in your stats class or the SPEAKER_01: sexual violence? SPEAKER_01: Was for more advanced. SPEAKER_01: Sexual violence, I'm teaching it now, but he did request to be in it. SPEAKER_00: K. SPEAKER_00: Um, so the only class you had with Koburger was for methods? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: I guess tell me about that first interaction you had with him. SPEAKER_01: Just it it was the first day. SPEAKER_01: I think everyone was a little bit stressed. SPEAKER_01: Mhmm. SPEAKER_01: But I don't know. SPEAKER_01: Not I would say nothing stands out much other than wanting to dominate the conversation. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_02: Hey, real quick. SPEAKER_02: Do you mind if I interrupt for a second? SPEAKER_00: No. SPEAKER_00: Go ahead. SPEAKER_02: Just in thinking this, because we don't know why you wanted to talk to us Yeah. SPEAKER_02: Can we just start off with what she wanted to come in and talk to us about, and then we'll go back down our Yeah. SPEAKER_02: Line of questions? SPEAKER_02: Why don't you tell us what what you have for us? SPEAKER_02: That might be even more question. SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't my understanding, and I just wanna clarify this, now that there's been a warrant serve, I can talk about FERPA stuff now. SPEAKER_01: Right? SPEAKER_01: Is that true? SPEAKER_02: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Yes? SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: So he the the week right after the murders, he was not in my class. SPEAKER_01: He and he sent me an email, like, about not being there. SPEAKER_01: He the paper he wrote for that class is about burglary. SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if there is something in there, and I know it's part of the stuff that I'm preparing and turning over. SPEAKER_02: And that includes the email that he sent to you? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_00: And that that paper that he wrote will be part of that as well? SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Because it's it was FERPA protected, but now that there's a warrant for it. SPEAKER_01: And again, like, I don't have all the details. SPEAKER_01: There might be something in there that's helpful, like, I don't know. SPEAKER_01: K. SPEAKER_01: So I think that, for me, that paper is relevant. SPEAKER_01: The absence right after and I also saw him I was covering for another faculty for a Tuesday class right the week after the murder as well, and he was really really late that that Tuesday class. SPEAKER_01: So SPEAKER_00: k. SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else that stood out to you? SPEAKER_01: I think it was pre murders. SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure. SPEAKER_01: He had something on his hands and I asked him about it and he gave me but I think it was pre. SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't remember. SPEAKER_01: I didn't But he saw me looking at his hand and he said, oh, you're probably wondering what this is. SPEAKER_01: And he gave me a it was a silly accident. SPEAKER_01: And then completely flushed when he explained what happened to his hand. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_02: Okay. SPEAKER_02: And when was that? SPEAKER_01: I get I like, I remember kind of late late semester, but that could have been beginning of November. SPEAKER_01: But I remember, like, he was a a big double the two middle, and he had big band aids. SPEAKER_01: And he said something, and I don't remember what he said, but it was something about it happened indoors, and I remember thinking that didn't happen indoor because it looked like, you know, when you scrape on asphalt, like and it was anyways. SPEAKER_01: That's probably nothing. SPEAKER_02: Right hand, left hand, you remember? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_02: So on right hand and when you were seeing the two middle fingers, which ones are you pointing at? SPEAKER_01: Your These two. SPEAKER_01: Like, the longest SPEAKER_02: So right next to your pinky? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_02: And then your middle index finger. SPEAKER_01: And for two weeks, he had Okay. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: That's it. SPEAKER_01: The other the other things is I can talk to you about how he was in in classes and SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: I mean SPEAKER_01: he didn't like very much strong females if you want my opinion. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: I mean, what what was his interaction like in the class? SPEAKER_00: So how did he interact with other students? SPEAKER_00: How did he interact with you? SPEAKER_01: So it was very he wanted to dominate the conversation. SPEAKER_01: He would systematically be late to my class, like, every week. SPEAKER_01: So the point where one week he wasn't and I just looked at him was like, hey, you're not late today. SPEAKER_01: And he just did the awkward laughing type of thing. SPEAKER_01: He cornered me after the very first week. SPEAKER_01: He cornered me because I had not given him a 100% on participation for that week in the hall and many people heard that. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: So but it was just and and I do think though that he learned that I was not reacting to this very well And my feeling was by, you know, by the end of class, like I would deliberately not call on him because he would always be like and and even thinking that he should be the professor and assigning who should talk instead of me doing that. SPEAKER_01: So but he kind of learned and was more like contained, I would say, by the end of class. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: So when you say you would deliberately not call on him, in your class, is it open for dialogue? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_01: That's a seminar. SPEAKER_01: Right? SPEAKER_01: So we're all in circle and we talk kind of thing. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And you would just deliberately not SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Call on him because because why? SPEAKER_00: What was the reason? SPEAKER_01: Because first, he always wanted to talk, but, like, go on these monologues and SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: And then correct other like, I can do the correcting if there isn't there needs to be like, things like this. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: So in that, is it more of, like, it's open for questions or is it more for the students to state their opinions? SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And would he I guess, how would he present his opinions or his ideas? SPEAKER_01: At first, I would say kind of more this is it. SPEAKER_01: And I would say in terms of research methods, which was a topic, right, there's place to argue a different way of collecting that same information. SPEAKER_01: So yes. SPEAKER_01: But he would. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: He knew better. SPEAKER_01: And, of course, this is secondhand, but one of my student well, obviously, I'm not American and I have an accent, but one of my student texted me that because I'm a foreigner, he knew better, and he was telling that to other students. SPEAKER_00: So would it be fair to say that he would state his opinions as statements of fact rather than just in his opinion of how things should be done? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Did you ever notice any interactions between him and other students that would be unfavorable? SPEAKER_00: Or either way. SPEAKER_00: Either way. SPEAKER_00: So SPEAKER_01: So and I think I need to protect Fairport for the other students. SPEAKER_01: I won't name names. SPEAKER_01: But I SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. SPEAKER_01: I'm aware of because I was in my I I'm the I'm not the only faculty that has an office downstairs, but I'm the only one that was there this fall that has an office. SPEAKER_01: So Brian's office was there and all the new students. SPEAKER_01: But one day, another grad student came running, crying, like, tear streaming, and told me that she had left class because of an interaction with Brian. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Did she describe that interaction to you? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_01: But I'm going to be heavily paraphrasing. SPEAKER_01: Like, something like he said some yeah. SPEAKER_01: He said something that was very sexist, I guess, and she called him out on mansplaining. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: And then he dig his dug his heels and kept Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: To the point where she felt she needed to stand up and leave the room. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Was he aggressive toward her then with with that interaction? SPEAKER_01: I I don't know about that. SPEAKER_02: You didn't actually see the interaction? SPEAKER_02: No. SPEAKER_02: This was her coming out of the room, crying, and came down to where your office was at SPEAKER_01: at your cell her office was and but I saw her, like, so I just quickly checked in and SPEAKER_00: And you said this was a graduate student of the criminal justice program? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: It's it's likely I'm not gonna ask you to name your names, it is very likely that we've talked to her already because there's a vast number of the criminology and criminal justice grad students that we've talked to already. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: So SPEAKER_02: If we're not getting the name, would you mind reaching out to this student and verifying she has been interviewed? SPEAKER_02: And if she hasn't, we would definitely be interested in contacting her or having her contact us SPEAKER_01: and SPEAKER_02: directly getting that information. SPEAKER_00: Yes. SPEAKER_00: And you're welcome to I mean, the the cell number that I texted you on, that's my work phone. SPEAKER_00: You're welcome to give her that number Okay. SPEAKER_00: And my information if she hasn't been contacted, and she would like to SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Have an interview with us. SPEAKER_01: I will do that. SPEAKER_00: Is there any other interactions with students that you can recollect? SPEAKER_00: Positive positive or negative? SPEAKER_01: That I was I I guess because I was the only one downstairs, I will say that I got a lot of stories. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: But you need me to have witnessed it. SPEAKER_01: Right? SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily. SPEAKER_00: Secondhand information is useful as well. SPEAKER_00: So SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: So we have so I heard a lot of stories. SPEAKER_01: Let me let me think think through. SPEAKER_01: So one of them we have a student and I'm not going to name them, but I think giving the characteristics might identify them, but they're both it was Brian told her to her face that he needed his next his partner to be physically perfect and would not be okay. SPEAKER_01: Like, things like this. SPEAKER_01: I have lots of stories like this, but not a lot of them were said, like, in front of me. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And that's fine. SPEAKER_01: But I was kind of the point of contact where student would come in my office, call that, recall the story, and I would go and talk to about it and what we could do. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And like I said, anything anything that you can remember even if it is secondhand, you just heard it. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: That all that all helps us because it kinda helps corroborate other stories that we've already heard or potentially new leads that we need to follow-up on. SPEAKER_00: So it I mean, whatever you can remember. SPEAKER_00: And, again, like I said, positive or negative, if there's anything either way that really stood out to you, that's that's all helpful information for us. SPEAKER_01: One of my friend one my student had the positive interaction, and he was just she's and he said something to her, oh, I could never understand, like, what your experience is like. SPEAKER_01: It's that's literally the one positive story I heard. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: So out of all of the stories that you recollect, there was only one positive that you remember. SPEAKER_00: Were there any positive interactions that you had with him personally? SPEAKER_00: So SPEAKER_01: I think Brian's research interests were very very much aligned with mine and I will say we've had lots of conversation about that. SPEAKER_01: So, you know, he he kept saying that he wanted to study emotions and decision makings. SPEAKER_01: Like, I've done that research but for sex offenders. SPEAKER_01: So I don't wanna say it was positive, but it was, you know, regular, you know, collegial, you know, professor with a grad student talking about what it means and like what what kind of insight we're having. SPEAKER_01: So I had a lot of and he read like a lot of my research. SPEAKER_01: I know when he had to do a paper on another class about a faculty, he picked one of my papers. SPEAKER_01: Like, my feeling is that he wanted to work with me, but he never formally asked. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Well, can you recall any of the other stories that you heard of students in your you know, that you overheard in your office or students that came to you directly that wanted to share an interaction with you? SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to so there was this he said something homophobic. SPEAKER_01: I classified it as homophobic. SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what the story was. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: He oh, and I was asked that again, I was asked by staff because I because I'm at long hours at the office kind of thing, like more mostly eight to five every days, and I'm one of the only professor that does this. SPEAKER_01: But I was asked to check-in on the work study because Brian was, like, harassing her. SPEAKER_01: So if maybe some nights I could help walk her out or something like this. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Oh, these ones I witnessed a couple of times. SPEAKER_01: I don't know why I forgot about this, but the grad student office that's right in front of mine had some of the female grad students that he was interested to, I would think. SPEAKER_01: And he would go in there and block the door. SPEAKER_01: And every now and then, I would hear, I really need to get out of here by one of the students. SPEAKER_01: And I would kind of step out of my office, go and, like, literally make my way so to let them. SPEAKER_01: Because one of the complaints were that he wouldn't let people leave. SPEAKER_01: Like, he would physically block the door when they they were were having having conversations. SPEAKER_01: Conversations. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: And even at the statement I need to leave or I need to get out of here, you wouldn't leave? SPEAKER_00: You just try to continue to force that conversation? SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else? SPEAKER_01: I think that's it. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you can think of for us that might be beneficial to this investigation? SPEAKER_01: It's only the paper. SPEAKER_01: And, I don't have all the like, I will. SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's for it to be scanned later this afternoon. SPEAKER_01: So it will be turned over. SPEAKER_01: I don't know if maybe there's something in that paper. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: He he he really wanted to study burglars, like and again, my research started with my first two years of my research was studying sexual burglaries, so people that break into houses for sexual purposes. SPEAKER_02: Mhmm. SPEAKER_01: And he was very against sex offenders. SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how to explain it. SPEAKER_01: And I kept saying, okay, Brian, but those are the same principles. SPEAKER_01: Right? SPEAKER_01: They are human beings and yeah, the emotions might be a little bit different. SPEAKER_01: But if you did if you think about it, and also if you look at the research on, you know, other types of burglars, the excitement is still a very strong factor. SPEAKER_01: And it it would always like, no. SPEAKER_01: It's not the same as a sex offender type thing. SPEAKER_01: Like he really did not want sex offenders. SPEAKER_01: And I remember being okay, that's that's intense, like, as a not a sex offender. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: And when you're you're saying he was against sex offenders, what do you mean by that? SPEAKER_01: He was I mean, like, academically, he was very intent that regular burglars had nothing to do with sex offender who commit burglaries. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: It was, like, a completely different motivation or yeah. SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking about this a lot in light of things is what I would say. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Did so did he have a specific I guess my question is did he have a specific stance on sexual offend sex offenders as a whole or just as it pertains to the methods of burglary? SPEAKER_01: I would say just as it pertains to the methods of burglary, like yeah. SPEAKER_00: K. SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned earlier that he was always late to your class. SPEAKER_00: What was the like, how late would he usually show up? SPEAKER_01: Anytime from at least ten minutes that it would be, like, noticeable to an hour, I think, once. SPEAKER_01: But then he showed up with a note from his supervisor, I think, saying, oh, there was an exam review. SPEA