Audio Recording
SPEAKER_00: 12/05/2022, 01:32PM. SPEAKER_00: Detective Joe Lake. SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm meeting with best friend to Ethan Chaffin. SPEAKER_00: Again, sorry. SPEAKER_00: So as we were as we're beginning to say, did anything jump out at you while you're filling out the questionnaire that you started to say? SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: The the fact that we hung out that night before that Friday, I'm pretty sure. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Friday at the victim's house, we just sat there and hung out. SPEAKER_01: And SPEAKER_00: Who who did you bear with? SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that with Santa, Ethan? SPEAKER_01: There. SPEAKER_01: One of the girls that lived there. SPEAKER_01: Other girl that lived there. SPEAKER_01: That's all I can remember. SPEAKER_00: You don't remember Madison and Kaylee? SPEAKER_01: I don't remember if they were there. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: How old are you? SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: So you aren't quite getting in the bars unless you got a fake ID. SPEAKER_00: Just so you know, if we talk about anything outside of the homicide that may be illegal, illicit, or anything else, I don't care. SPEAKER_00: I know. SPEAKER_00: I don't. SPEAKER_00: All I care about is finding the person responsible for killing a friend and and his roommate well, and his his friends. SPEAKER_01: Even if I were to get a MIC or whatever, if I wouldn't give a shit as long as I'm just helping out this shit. SPEAKER_00: I we appreciate that very much. SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm giving you, put it call it this way, an immunity. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Alright? SPEAKER_00: If that's if that's makes any sense to you. SPEAKER_00: So you probably noticed by some of the questions kinda where where I'm going with this question here, and you probably have an idea of some of the questions I'm gonna ask you as as we review it together. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna have some open ended kinda questions for you as well. SPEAKER_00: Okay? SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm pretty transparent. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: If there's there's anything that that, you know, you you got questions about, by all means, ask. SPEAKER_00: But before I get into all of that, I I wanna share something with you just because I I think there's a misconception by some. SPEAKER_00: Others, I think, recognize it for what it is, but the media has created a problem. SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah. SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say something new that's probably been the hardest thing for me is the media, listening to all media and seeing all the shit on Twitter and Instagram and Yeah. SPEAKER_01: TikTok even. SPEAKER_01: It's insane, and it's so much of it, 99% of it is miskewed and wrong. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: And I wish I could say something, but I'm like, what's gonna what's it gonna do? SPEAKER_00: Nothing. SPEAKER_00: That was going to be my advice for you is don't don't chime in because there are so many trolls out there and other people that they will target you. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Go after you. SPEAKER_00: But the media, one of the reasons they create problems now keep in mind, they've been briefed, and they're regularly briefed. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: But the they turn around and they they provide misinformation or they only take snippets of that information that they run with their assumption of the information is, again, to create a problem. SPEAKER_00: And when they can create a problem, they have to be the provider of that solution. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, you must stay tuned in because they're gonna provide that solution eventually. SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if it just wasn't for all these pesky, you know, procedural things and legal things, you know, they should just tell us everything. SPEAKER_00: And reality is when it when we do find a suspect, and we will, and we take them to trial, The information needs to be organic, needs to be needs to be consolidated to every person's personal knowledge. SPEAKER_00: And as I like to tell people, my job as a detective is to extract information from you, not to feed you information. SPEAKER_00: I know that may sound maybe harsh in a way. SPEAKER_01: No. SPEAKER_01: It's SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Yeah, imagine if if I was defense attorney and I had you on the stand, and where did you learn this? SPEAKER_00: And you say, well, detective Joe Lake. SPEAKER_00: When I sat down and he told me all about these things, you would immediately be excused. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: Your testimony is no good. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: Because it's not your knowledge. SPEAKER_00: It's knowledge that you have been fed or gleaned, which taints your testimony. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: So Makes sense. SPEAKER_00: That's the whole reason why information is not released in criminal investigations is because they do go to trial. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: You you have to preserve the the integrity of the investigation. SPEAKER_01: And if he calls guys the one that did, he saw us to go to trial. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: He has due process. SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's, you know, the great thing about our constitution and and maybe our it's kind of downfall too. SPEAKER_00: It's Yeah. SPEAKER_00: You know, they they they have that right. SPEAKER_00: So questions for me? SPEAKER_00: No. SPEAKER_00: Alright. SPEAKER_00: Let's jump in. SPEAKER_01: Well yeah. SPEAKER_01: Go ahead. SPEAKER_01: I was I'm just gonna ask. SPEAKER_01: You probably can't tell me anything what's going on. SPEAKER_00: Can tell you a little bit maybe. SPEAKER_00: What what can What SPEAKER_01: can you tell me? SPEAKER_01: Well And what what is do you guys know anything? SPEAKER_01: Because it kinda keeps me up at night. SPEAKER_00: I bet it does. SPEAKER_01: And I'm having a hard time sleeping. SPEAKER_01: I moved down the the rest of the semester and got an apartment. SPEAKER_00: I can give you kinda high levels. SPEAKER_00: I can tell you, I like I mentioned before, I've never seen such a team assembled. SPEAKER_00: When I arrived in here, I actually got back in Idaho on Wednesday night and started on the investigation. SPEAKER_00: But Thursday, was boots on the ground here, and I had never seen a team assembled like that. SPEAKER_00: And we had resources pouring in from around the state and around SPEAKER_01: the nation. SPEAKER_01: Just the numbers of people? SPEAKER_01: Or SPEAKER_00: The numbers of people, their their CVs, their, you know, their background, their truly subject matter experts. SPEAKER_00: And whether it be data mining or, you know, warrant process for cellular towers. SPEAKER_00: Or, I mean, literally, subject matter experts came in. SPEAKER_00: We we brought them in from around the nation. SPEAKER_00: Moscow PD is about 35 officers. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: We and the state police were were about 300, and we're made up of several branches. SPEAKER_00: Primarily patrol is what we're known for, but we have about 50 detectives, 60 actually throughout the state, and I'm one of those. SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, we brought in the FBI to augment us. SPEAKER_00: So the the case is being run by Mosco PD with state police co running it and then the FBI in support. SPEAKER_00: And at any given time, there's about a 100 people working on this, and we're working twenty four seven. SPEAKER_00: So much so, I mean, most of us, you know, we're just down with this whatever it's going on cold or whatever, but we're still chugging away, you know, taking our laptops, uplinking in, whatever we need to do. SPEAKER_00: But we also were rotating people to get get fresh people in and and, you know, of course, there's a brief process, then we kick them out. SPEAKER_00: But we've we've collected more more data, more footage, more statements than I've ever seen collected on SPEAKER_01: any Really? SPEAKER_00: Investigation in twenty years. SPEAKER_00: It's impressive. SPEAKER_00: I mean, truly impressive. SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've I've been to schools all around the nation. SPEAKER_00: No officers from, you know, some of the largest agencies, NYPD all the way down to some of the smallest agencies, you know, people of four or five people. SPEAKER_00: And I've never even heard of anything like this. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: Moscow PD really did the right thing. SPEAKER_00: They they started calling in for assistance and and compiling this team. SPEAKER_00: And when when we got here, we we have connections with all kinds of other organizations and start bringing them in, and It's it's really it it's quite impressive. SPEAKER_00: What I can tell you is we have literally talked to thousands of people in both what what I'd call, like, a triage. SPEAKER_00: In other words, let's just say there's a room full of a 100 people and a fight breaks out. SPEAKER_01: Mhmm. SPEAKER_00: And you arrive. SPEAKER_00: First thing you wanna know, what happened? SPEAKER_00: So you start asking people, what happened? SPEAKER_00: What happened? SPEAKER_00: What happened? SPEAKER_00: What happened? SPEAKER_00: Pretty soon, you find that person who's sitting SPEAKER_01: sitting right next to him. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_00: And that's when you bring him in, and then you sit him down and you interview him. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: So and maybe end up with 10 that actually saw what happened. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, you get 10 different accounts of what happened, and that's in perspective. SPEAKER_00: You know, this person was privy to the argument wasn't started by subject x. SPEAKER_00: It was started by subject y was the primary aggressor and and you know? SPEAKER_00: But the other person sees it the other way around or something. SPEAKER_00: So it it has been really impressive that way. SPEAKER_00: The the thing is is while we have some great leads and we we have a lot of people of interest that that we've narrowed down, unfortunately, that we have not got to the point where we can affect arrests. SPEAKER_01: Right. SPEAKER_01: But you but you guys have no doubt that you're gonna get this motherfucker? SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Keep in mind, this this is I mean, it's a good thing. SPEAKER_00: It really is. SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm I'm a person. SPEAKER_00: I believe in the constitution. SPEAKER_00: I served after the college. SPEAKER_00: I served eight years in the brain. SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I I I love our nation. SPEAKER_00: I I love our constitution. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Thank you. SPEAKER_00: So, I I mean, I I I love the fact that we have our balance in government, and I love the fact that the government kinda has rules, right, unlike other nations. SPEAKER_00: But sometimes those those rules are very tough, especially when you're the person working within those rules. SPEAKER_00: You can't just go out and violate people's rights. SPEAKER_00: And I I fully agree with that, and I I I acknowledge that. SPEAKER_00: It takes time to get warrants. SPEAKER_00: It takes time to follow-up on these. SPEAKER_00: It takes time to process physical evidence. SPEAKER_00: So that and and a lot of that's just kinda high level. SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, I can't go into nuts and bolts with you because, again, I can't change your your knowledge base. SPEAKER_00: But does that help at all? SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: It does. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Feel a little better. SPEAKER_00: Like I said, we've spoken thousands of people. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: We're we're getting there. SPEAKER_00: Put that way. SPEAKER_00: It's not an easy case by no means. SPEAKER_01: No. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: At least not. SPEAKER_00: First question on family and background. SPEAKER_00: Identify Ethan's family members. SPEAKER_00: Newest parents, sibling girlfriend, Zena. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: I had the opportunity to sit down with him the other night. SPEAKER_00: Great people. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: I actually that same day, I helped him move out Ethan's stuff out of his apartment. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: His apartment was over here. SPEAKER_00: You know SPEAKER_01: that dentist's office is right here? SPEAKER_01: Mhmm. SPEAKER_01: Close to right here. SPEAKER_01: I think he's across the street from that. SPEAKER_01: Helped him move out of that. SPEAKER_01: And then Yeah. SPEAKER_00: We went into his apartment. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: They probably didn't find anything. SPEAKER_00: No. SPEAKER_00: And to me, mean, you tell me. SPEAKER_00: It looked like he never slept there. SPEAKER_01: He didn't. SPEAKER_00: He didn't SPEAKER_01: he didn't ever sleep there. SPEAKER_00: I mean, it looks like SPEAKER_01: He slept there, like, four times the whole semester. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: He had two beds in there. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: And both of them looked like they were somewhat made. SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were. SPEAKER_00: They were made. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: But I I would almost call it a sterile environment. SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah. SPEAKER_01: He never was there ever. SPEAKER_00: So if he wasn't there, where was he? SPEAKER_01: He was always at Xana's apartment. SPEAKER_01: Stayed there every night pretty much. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: If he wasn't there at Xana's apartment, would he stay over at the frat? SPEAKER_01: He would never not stay at Xana's at as far as I know. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: He would never pass out at the fraternity ever, I think. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Not that I know of. SPEAKER_01: He never would in my room. SPEAKER_01: He would always get walked home or which was Xana's book. SPEAKER_00: I gotcha. SPEAKER_00: What year are you? SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: So at the at the frat, do you have your own room? SPEAKER_01: I live with one other guy. SPEAKER_00: But yeah. SPEAKER_00: One other You have a two room. SPEAKER_00: Man. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Yep. SPEAKER_00: Versus the four or six. SPEAKER_01: Or They yeah. SPEAKER_01: If there's two mans and six mans. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_01: Another thing I don't know if you guys do you guys know that Ethan's not a freshman? SPEAKER_01: Right? SPEAKER_01: I keep saying that Ethan's a freshman. SPEAKER_00: Yes. SPEAKER_00: We know all of that. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: We've we've tried to correct them. SPEAKER_00: They were unwilling to to make changes. SPEAKER_00: That's fine. SPEAKER_00: Because they don't want to act like they don't know. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Like, university is the one that's putting that. SPEAKER_00: We have their full academic records. SPEAKER_00: We have everything. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: He's a he's a sophomore. SPEAKER_01: He was a sophomore. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: That's that's on them. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: We we can only provide them information if they want to correct themselves. SPEAKER_00: They can correct themselves. SPEAKER_00: But what happens when they correct themselves? SPEAKER_01: They look bad. SPEAKER_00: Right. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And then it causes doubt, then they start losing viewership. SPEAKER_00: And when they lose viewership, they lose marketing capital. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: And it goes on and on. SPEAKER_00: So have you ever been to the the Chaffin's place? SPEAKER_01: I have. SPEAKER_01: They keep saying they wanted to bring me up during break, but I haven't been there before. SPEAKER_01: No. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: Did Ethan ever go down to your your folks SPEAKER_01: Nope. SPEAKER_01: He was gonna do that this break. SPEAKER_01: He was gonna come down and visit. SPEAKER_01: But yeah. SPEAKER_00: That would've been pretty cool for him. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: It would've been sick. SPEAKER_01: Gonna do that. SPEAKER_01: They come get a change of scenery, work a few days down there. SPEAKER_01: Good. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Good. SPEAKER_00: It it it does the mind and body good. SPEAKER_00: Working SPEAKER_01: Get on the back of a horse. SPEAKER_01: It's like a different type of therapy. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: It is. SPEAKER_00: Definitely. SPEAKER_00: Describe quality, positive, negative, Ethan's relationship strength bonds, surrounded by love, hardly ever had arguments, kinda goofy, quick to laugh. SPEAKER_00: Super goofy. SPEAKER_00: So I wanna obviously, there's gonna be things I'm gonna queue up on. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: I understand. SPEAKER_00: Really gregarious guy. SPEAKER_00: Mhmm. SPEAKER_00: He'd kinda be the center of attention. SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah. SPEAKER_01: Un SPEAKER_00: unwantingly, not unwillingly, but unwantingly, it sounds like just my the people I've spoken with and thus far is he just kinda had a a way of drawing people Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Towards him, which is which is pretty cool. SPEAKER_00: Never had arguments. SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna queue up on this one. SPEAKER_00: So we all have conflicts. SPEAKER_00: We all have you know, sometimes it's with siblings. SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's with friends. SPEAKER_00: Whatever. SPEAKER_00: I know that people got kicked out of parties out of out of their house, you know, out of Santa's house periodically and things like that. SPEAKER_00: If there were an argument, how would Ethan handle that? SPEAKER_01: He wouldn't yell. SPEAKER_01: That's for one thing. SPEAKER_01: He'd keep his voice his at the base and his voice below. SPEAKER_00: K. SPEAKER_01: Would be real with him. SPEAKER_01: And, like SPEAKER_00: yeah. SPEAKER_00: You ever you ever observe any of that? SPEAKER_01: No. SPEAKER_01: I've kicked people out of parties because I'm not afraid to be a dick, but but he he's kinda doesn't wanna he doesn't like altercation. SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I really haven't seen that. SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say something before. SPEAKER_01: I'll come. SPEAKER_01: It'll come back. SPEAKER_01: Damn it. SPEAKER_00: Talking about altercations kinda SPEAKER_01: No. SPEAKER_01: Just before that. SPEAKER_01: Damn it. SPEAKER_00: Well, here's here's the interesting thing is sometimes even the smallest things help us Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Solve these. SPEAKER_00: So he said he doesn't like confrontation. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that. SPEAKER_01: He doesn't like confrontation because he he's he likes his image and, like, how he's viewed by other people, which I'm which which is how a lot of people are. SPEAKER_01: I know I'm that way, but not as much as he was. SPEAKER_01: Like, he didn't like being a dick to people, being rude, mean Right. SPEAKER_01: Kicking them out of party type deal. SPEAKER_01: And when he was in the wrong, he would admit it. SPEAKER_01: He wouldn't, like, argue with it about it. SPEAKER_01: Okay. SPEAKER_01: He would he knew he was in the wrong, that type of thing. SPEAKER_00: That's pretty big. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Especially with someone who's 20. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: Right? SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: K. SPEAKER_00: Do you know if if he had any any beefs or any bad blood with anyone? SPEAKER_01: Oh, here's what I was gonna say. SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, like, he and his SPEAKER_00: So minor arguments. SPEAKER_00: Super minor. SPEAKER_00: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: Not anything we didn't do. SPEAKER_00: Do you have any siblings? SPEAKER_00: Do you think Ethan had that same sense of responsibility? SPEAKER_00: He kinda seemed like the leader of the trio. SPEAKER_01: Yeah. SPEAKER_01: He definitely did. SPEAKER_01: He was definitely the most mature. SPEAKER_00: Okay. SPEAKER_00: You don't know if Ethan getting in any trouble, being arrested, having court involvement, anything like that? SPEAKER_00: From what I understand, because that was one of the first things I asked, is how many times has law enforcement been called to that residen